[Domski]

Hi,
I'm in the process of starting a rental company in the North West aimed specifically at schools, colleges and the amateur theatre. I used to work for a sixth form college in Manchester.

To ensure I am providing the right equipment at the right prices I just need as many people as possible to answer a very short 5 question survey about the equipment they hire. It will literally take 1 minute of your time.

Please PM me if you can help and I'll send you the questions.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks very much
Dom.

[CharlieH]

I'll take a look. Student, not full time tech, at a College, but I source all the gear we hire

[Young Johnstone]

I'll be happy to answer some questions!
Pop them over

[gordontech]

I can answer a few questions



You can post a poll on here, means you will get all your questions answered without having to send them individually.

[CallumP93]

Send the questtions on to me aswell, I advise on all the hire in the school I study / work at.

[d_korman]

one point to note:

Your target customer base generally does not need the latest model of whatever. Last year's (or the year before's) version at a better price in generally preferable.

We find we can get very good rates from the big hire companies by taking older kit that mostly sits on their shelves.

[Domski]

Thanks very much for your help! questions are as follows:
1. How many times a year do you hire equipment for your shows?

2. Where do you hire the equipment from?

3. When hiring, what's more important to you apart from safety? (please put 'Y' next to ones that you'd select)
- Age of gear
- Top industry brands
- Appearance of gear
- Presentation of gear
- Price
- Speed of delivery
- Technical support if needed
- Hirer local to you
- Any other?

4. Which kinds of equipment do you hire? (pars, movers, mics, decks etc)

5. Would a service offering lighting / sound design for your shows be of interest to you?

Any other comments


Thank you once again, your help is much appreciated!!

CharlieH, on 01 February 2012 - 05:53 PM, said:

I'll take a look. Student, not full time tech, at a College, but I source all the gear we hire

Thanks for this Gordon. Will figure how to do it and get it posted.

Cheers

gordontech, on 01 February 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

I can answer a few questions



You can post a poll on here, means you will get all your questions answered without having to send them individually.

Thanks for this, this is one of the big questions I have. Is older gear ok to hire or does it need to be spanking new and latest models??
Cheers.

d_korman, on 02 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

one point to note:

Your target customer base generally does not need the latest model of whatever. Last year's (or the year before's) version at a better price in generally preferable.

We find we can get very good rates from the big hire companies by taking older kit that mostly sits on their shelves.

[Mat]

1. How many times a year do you hire equipment for your shows?


Once a year for the school show.

2. Where do you hire the equipment from?


Two local hire companies.

3. When hiring, what's more important to you apart from safety? (please put 'Y' next to ones that you'd select)
- Age of gear
- Top industry brands
- Appearance of gear
Y - Presentation of gear
Y - Price
Y - Speed of delivery
- Technical support if needed
Y - Hirer local to you
- Any other?

4. Which kinds of equipment do you hire? (pars, movers, mics, decks etc)


Sound Desk, Staging, LED Lighting

5. Would a service offering lighting / sound design for your shows be of interest to you?


For me, no.

[paulears]

The snag to the entire scheme is simply cost. Look at the companies you may have rented from before. Look at their rate card, and do a bit of maths. Some people found a niche in the local market - I started out renting radio microphones and specialist mics, mainly to amateur companies and TV - amply because in my area nobody else did it, so I was on the doorstep, almost and convenient for them. My stock was pretty busy and paid for itself fairly quickly. The problem is expansion. I started adding more kit to service specific requests "did I have any very long shotguns?" was the first. I didn't, but got a good deal on two (the quantity the client asked for) and hired them out for a week. Never went out again - too specialist. After three years, I sold them for half what I paid and lost around £200 start to finish. I've lost track of the kit I've bought that has NOT earned it's keep. The thing it took me a long time to realise was that if the big hire companies don't have certain products, there's a good reason - and many of my clients were in fact hiring the bulk of their hire equipment from the big boys, only coming to me for the more unusual - not because I was their preferred supplier. It's so much easier to be able to give the big list to one firm, and let them get on with it - only hiring from other sources the stuff they don't have. The kind of kit you are looking at is very common, and has loads of sources - so why would people come to you, when they could just email a big firm - who are, as mentioned above - able to also do deals on the kit that doesn't move much.

Just look at a simple par can. How many do you need to keep in stock to be able to service the jobs that come in 20, 30, 100?

If you start building up hire equipment, where do you store it when it's no out! I have two smallish stores - not here, and I keep the cases, cables, boxes and bins there. Storage also costs, has insurance implications and security problems.

In my own area I have Viking up the road, and I direct any enquiries for equipment to them. I don't offer dry hire any longer. The kit I have I use on my own productions, and maybe as cross hires for other people I know. This is much better for me. Dry hire is financially daft when you have companies with much better ranges of kit available in the area. Ian at Viking is a good example of a big firm with small firm values. They're reliable, value for money and friendly people - and always seem to have the latest kit. No idea how he does it, but I could never compete, and to even try would be foolhardy.

The target market of schools and colleges also brings up payment terms - rarely 30 days, probably double that. It also means dealing with people who are more likely to lose, damage and abuse your kit. They also have the habit of calling at 4pm on Friday and needing help. They also want cheapness. Very difficult customers, and not exactly year round people - usually the ends of the academic year. So maybe a bit of business at Christmas, then a gap until April-June. Again - a difficult sector of the industry to service?

[roryfm]

I agree with Paul's points above, we hire rarely, in small doses and I want cheap and local. Mainly for the odd bit of effects that it doesn't make sense for us to own. I have several hire companies in the area, who I do a little bit of business with so that when we need gear in a hurry that know who we are. I usually know exactly what I'm looking for, but as others have said aren't fussed if it's the latest and greatest - a small strobe light is just as good to me as something with bells and whistles when I'm asked at the last minute to provide 'you know, like, flashing strobe lights and, er, smoke'

I'm also very aware just how 'childproof' everything we use has to be, and how all it takes is turning your back for a second for a piece of kit to get destroyed.

1. How many times a year do you hire equipment for your shows?
Less than a dozen

2. Where do you hire the equipment from?
Companies local to our routes to work (so we can pick up/drop off for reduced cost) then in an ever widening circle til I find somewhere that does what I want at the price I want

3. When hiring, what's more important to you apart from safety? (please put 'Y' next to ones that you'd select)
- Age of gear
- Top industry brands
- Appearance of gear
- Presentation of gear
Y Price
Y Speed of delivery
- Technical support if needed
Y Hirer local to you
- Any other?
Ability to pay on account

4. Which kinds of equipment do you hire? (pars, movers, mics, decks etc)
'Effects' things hired in the last year or so include:
Mirror balls/rotator
Strobe
Rotating police beacon
UV cannons
Extra pyro pods/cabling

5. Would a service offering lighting / sound design for your shows be of interest to you?
Not for us - there are two of us in our dept that do all of our design work in house, mainly as we introduce tech/design elements very early in the rehearsal process - ie staging/set design influencing blocking, sound effects being 'Q-lab'-ed in rehearsal etc
Also the way that our theatre space is used by assemblies, music rehearsals, lectures etc throughout the fit-up/tech/dress/performance period would probably be hard for a sane technician from the real world to put up with!

[MarkPAman]

1. How many times a year do you hire equipment for your shows?
Sound - 2 or 3
Lights - 0 - 6

2. Where do you hire the equipment from?
Local company does sound
Lighting usually from larger companies but we try to keep the distance down

3. When hiring, what's more important to you apart from safety? (please put 'Y' next to ones that you'd select)
- Age of gear
- Top industry brands
- Appearance of gear
Y - Presentation of gear
Y - Price
Y - Speed of delivery (actually the speed does not matter, it just has to arrive on time!)
Y- Technical support if needed
Y- Hirer local to you
- Any other?

4. Which kinds of equipment do you hire? (pars, movers, mics, decks etc)
Sound - Radio & float Mics & large desk - often with operator.
Lights - Usually extra "specials" - Recently I think gobo rotators, UV, lots of Par cans.

5. Would a service offering lighting / sound design for your shows be of interest to you?
Some years I do sound for the big musical, others it clashes with our music tours & so we get someone in to design & operate. He usually does the Panto too.
Never had anybody in for lights.

To be honest, I suspect that the people who may be interested in this sort of service will not be looking at the Blue Room.

[Domski]

Thanks for this Paul. Lots of food for thought here. This is why I need to speak to as many people as possible and get as many views so I can see if this is a viable venutre.
Your time and comments are much appreciated.

Thanks,
Dom

paulears, on 02 February 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

The snag to the entire scheme is simply cost. Look at the companies you may have rented from before. Look at their rate card, and do a bit of maths. Some people found a niche in the local market - I started out renting radio microphones and specialist mics, mainly to amateur companies and TV - amply because in my area nobody else did it, so I was on the doorstep, almost and convenient for them. My stock was pretty busy and paid for itself fairly quickly. The problem is expansion. I started adding more kit to service specific requests "did I have any very long shotguns?" was the first. I didn't, but got a good deal on two (the quantity the client asked for) and hired them out for a week. Never went out again - too specialist. After three years, I sold them for half what I paid and lost around £200 start to finish. I've lost track of the kit I've bought that has NOT earned it's keep. The thing it took me a long time to realise was that if the big hire companies don't have certain products, there's a good reason - and many of my clients were in fact hiring the bulk of their hire equipment from the big boys, only coming to me for the more unusual - not because I was their preferred supplier. It's so much easier to be able to give the big list to one firm, and let them get on with it - only hiring from other sources the stuff they don't have. The kind of kit you are looking at is very common, and has loads of sources - so why would people come to you, when they could just email a big firm - who are, as mentioned above - able to also do deals on the kit that doesn't move much.

Just look at a simple par can. How many do you need to keep in stock to be able to service the jobs that come in 20, 30, 100?

If you start building up hire equipment, where do you store it when it's no out! I have two smallish stores - not here, and I keep the cases, cables, boxes and bins there. Storage also costs, has insurance implications and security problems.

In my own area I have Viking up the road, and I direct any enquiries for equipment to them. I don't offer dry hire any longer. The kit I have I use on my own productions, and maybe as cross hires for other people I know. This is much better for me. Dry hire is financially daft when you have companies with much better ranges of kit available in the area. Ian at Viking is a good example of a big firm with small firm values. They're reliable, value for money and friendly people - and always seem to have the latest kit. No idea how he does it, but I could never compete, and to even try would be foolhardy.

The target market of schools and colleges also brings up payment terms - rarely 30 days, probably double that. It also means dealing with people who are more likely to lose, damage and abuse your kit. They also have the habit of calling at 4pm on Friday and needing help. They also want cheapness. Very difficult customers, and not exactly year round people - usually the ends of the academic year. So maybe a bit of business at Christmas, then a gap until April-June. Again - a difficult sector of the industry to service?

[Pete McCrea]

You have done a business plan, factored in your fixed costs such as insurance (£1000 easily for PLI, ELI, vehicles etc), storage etc, then looked at your start up costs and run cash flow scenarios?

Seriously, would I start a rental business again having been doing it for 6+ years? Nope. Certainly not in this climate, and certainly not PA/LX (no margins in it, especially as at the lower end the kit is getting close to commodity items).

That said if you're got a niche that needs filling, and the worst case scenario cash flow looks ok, then maybe give it a try.

[ramdram]

Frankly, it is not a viable venture at all if you are on your own, don't have a lot of stock and don't have a good relationship with your bank...

You could be run ragged trying to get stuff back so you can rent it out again the same day. What happens if you are hoping to sort out a customer's design contract if you have to chase up renters?

Don't forget that some s@ds hire kit from you, do a job on the Saturday, then hire the kit out themselves for their own private, possibly dry hire, job on the Sunday and it gets nicked or damaged?. How does insurance work then sort of thing? If the kit was returned in a non working state then you might have to repair the kit the instant it was returned... or then it might be you phoning around at the last moment for replacements to your stock.

You could lose a reputation before you could even get one in the first place.

When we hired kit the bods included spare lamps...you would have to stock them too...and hope the punter could replace them properly without getting finger prints/grease on them. Or the spare lamps have a pinch fault and the lamp will fail in less than 30 seconds from new. How much spare inventory can you afford to hold?

Cables could come back in a b@gger's muddle or at best in a figure of eight. Protective earth lifted on xleads to fix earth loops?

Then you get farcical complaints about kit not doing what was wanted 'cos they failed to read the instructions properly or understand them with demands for money back. Do you know exactly how your kit works. I hired a DMX strobe unit which turned up with no instructions. I was a complete novice ref DMX at the time so called the hire bloke and got advice...which was wrong. Turned out after three calls the bloke was totally wrong about the address thing; we never used him again.

Do you have the qualifications/kit for the PAT? some places won't let kit on the premises unless they see the correct paper...let alone cobble it into their power supply.

Not wishing to rain on your parade but the competition could be extremely fierce...and do you really want your competitors to be buying up your bankrupt stock.

Using polls on a forum is not really a good business plan. Suggest if you really want to do this you get prices from all your nearest competitors and then some further away.

Do the math and see how long you will take to earn back the capital outlay, then add the interest you would have made on said capital, factor in the storage, maintenance, insurance, consumables (spare lamps), and see if and when you start to make a profit...then think about tax implications.

And, how might you convince a potential customer why they should use yourself, the new boy, as opposed to their old, established, reputable, reliable supplier as in what is the added value that only "you" could supply?

[Biro]

Crazy idea, not in this climate - there is far too much competition. Aimed Schools, Colleges and Amateur Theatres ? The 3 that notoriously never have any money..