[rezmu]

Hello

I would like to purchase a lighting desk for my touring dance company. I would like it to be adapted to our currents shows (generics only, approx 120 circuits needed, 150 cues), but since it represents a sizeable investment, adapted also to work we might want to do in the future (such as moving lights, or more complex shows).

There are aspects that are important to my LD:

- something straightforward to work with in theater style shows
- at least 12 physical faders
- crossfade, go, and grand master
- he likes the avab presto a lot

But there are other aspects that are important to me:

- since it represents a sizeable investment, I'd prefer it be a recent desk
- we tour very light, it should be a very light desk, 10kgs at most, around 5-6kgs preferred, but robust
- having recently been through a desk failure with 8 hours of work in it, 1 hour before curtain, I would absolutely like to have a backup system. We always have computers on tour, so I was thinking the ideal would be to have the desk software, maybe with a wing, on the computer, as a backup. (but I am open to other backup systems, as long as they add very little weight).

Desks that have been suggested so far include the Mentor, and the Jester TL.

Thank you in advance for your advice

sam

[gareth]

Sounds to me as if you need to take a very close look at ETC's Congo Jr. with a fader wing ...

[dunk_1984]

Chamsys PC wing may be worth a look, with the Extra wing to add extra playbacks.
Then for back up, you can run the external dongle and run the show from the PC.

[smalljoshua]

Not being in the same market as you, I can only recommend on Specs (Sorry but this one seems obvious).

I'd take a look at MagicQ fully scalable consoles, PC wings. Review Here.

Edit: cross post dunk. I would be looking at a console (MQ100 Pro only 14kg) with a PC wing for backup. Not a PC wing with dongle for backup.

Josh

This post has been edited by smalljoshua: 07 February 2009 - 09:41 PM

[rezmu]

thanks for the quick reply.

I had been told that the Congo was really more oriented towards moving lights, not so much generics. Do you feel this is not the case ?
Also, if I understand correctly, it is quite expensive ?

A concurrent post has been automatically merged from this point on.

I should also mention that neither my LD nor I feel comfortable running the show primarily using a computer. (though a computer could be used for backup)

[Nick S]

The ETC Ion, the Congo Jr's brother, is more theatrically oriented. Like the Congo Jr, it isn't the cheapest option out there. The Ion is ETC's Express successor, whereas the Congo Jr is coming from a different angle, country, and line of thinking. They're both great consoles, if you're able to afford either you should try both and see which you get on with.

[dunk_1984]

rezmu, on 7 Feb 2009, 9:37 PM, said:

I should also mention that neither my LD nor I feel comfortable running the show primarily using a computer. (though a computer could be used for backup)

In which case as Josh suggests, running a Chamsys desk with the software and wing as back up is an option.

[rezmu]

The prices I can find are magicq 50 : 7777 euros
congo jr :approx 6500 euros
ion : 6444 euros

The magicq 50 already has the faders, although I've heard less about it than the ETC desks.

What would you recommend on a smaller budget ?
Something between the Presto and the three mentioned above ?

[smalljoshua]

How much money do you have available?

Josh

[peter]

It does sound like the Jester TL would be ideal for you - please let me know if you'd like any information. If backup is important to you, for the price of the TL (or TLXtra if you want faders), you could buy two compared to the MagicQ, Ion or Congo Jrs suggested above! We also have an offline editor so you can try before you buy.

Hope this helps,


Peter

[gareth]

Congo (and Congo Jr.) is equally at home with moving lights and dimmers - it's not biased in favour of either. Expensive? Well, I don't think it is - but whether you do depends on what you can afford!

ETC Ion is indeed another option, and personally speaking I think that's what I'd favour slightly over Congo - but I mentioned the Congo Jr. specifically because you mentioned that your programmer was comfortable with AVAB desks, and AVAB played a huge part in the development of Congo ...

MagicQ is another desk I like a lot - but I'm not sure that a PC based solution would be right for your situation. You mention ease of set-up when touring into a venue, and with a MagicQ PC Wing you'd have the 'host' PC to deal with as well as the wing and its monitor. Apart from the ligistics of it, you've already mentioned a preference to stay away from systems based around an external PC, so that's pretty much that. MagicQ MQ100 bring it all (screen included) into one box - but is possibly a bit heavy for your needs. Worth a look, though.

One thing to be aware of when asking a question about lighting consoles on this forum - you'll get a very broad mix of people replying to your question. At one end of the scale, you'll have professional lighting practitioners who've been using consoles 'in the field' for a long time (just in case you were wondering, this is my sixteenth year of earning a full-time living in the theatre industry ). At the other end, you have the youngsters who are still at school, and are happy to post 'recommendations' for desks that they've only ever had their hands on at a trade show, or read about on the web. What I'm saying, I guess, is that when you get advice on this sort of thing from an open-access internet forum, you can never really be certain just how seriously you should be taking it . Your best bet would be for you and your programmer/LD to go and visit a trade show (there's PLASA Focus in Leeds coming up soon, as well as the ABTT show in London), seek out the console manufacturers you're interested in, and spend some time with their products. It's the only sure way to find out whether a desk is really the one for you.

[rezmu]

I was hoping to spend approx 4k euros, but that was strictly from a budget point of view without looking at specific desks.
At the same time I do want to purchase the right desk that we'll be happy with for years to come.

No replies about the Mentor or Jester I mentioned. Bad ideas ?

[peter]

rezmu, on 7 Feb 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

No replies about the Mentor or Jester I mentioned. Bad ideas ?

I'd say the reason you've not had anything about the Jester TL is that it's only starting full production next month. Anything anyone other than Zero 88 say about it will be hearsay at this stage. My recommendation would be to download and try the offline editor - I hope you'll be pleasantly surprised. It also offers the possibility of controlling 30 moving lights so will allow your system to grow in future. Once again if there is anything I can do to help you with the Jesters, please don't hesitate to let me know.

[gareth]

peter, on 7 Feb 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

It does sound like the Jester TL would be ideal for you - for the price of the TL (or TLXtra if you want faders), you could buy two compared to the MagicQ, Ion or Congo Jrs suggested above!

You gets what you pays for! A Jester TL runs out of steam at 200 dimmers and 30 moving lights - a MagicQ MQ100 wouldn't even be breaking into a sweat at that point. Can a Jester TL handle LED mapping? Media servers? Ten simultaneous physical playbacks (with lots more virtual ones in the background)? Full colour touchscreen and eight encoders? A powerful Programmer for hands-on busking? Built-in UPS? Twice the price - yes. Twice the desk - and then some. IMHO.

(Incidentally, I don't work for a console manufacturer - I'm just an experienced programmer who knows what he likes and doesn't like in a desk!)

Like I said, get yourself some hands-on time with the desks you fancy - it'll make the choice much easier.

This post has been edited by gareth: 07 February 2009 - 10:22 PM

[HobitLight]

Obviously, I've not used the Jester TL. However, I have used the rest of the Jester range and I like it (though I prefer the Frogs more . You can run the desk manually or use subd or a cuestack easily. However, for 120 channels, the Jester or Jester ML won't quite fit the bill. However, judging by the OLE, the Jester TL has a similar interface to the other Jesters so should be easy to use and you can use a command line to access your lights and subs, too. You can also record groups to help programming. The Jester TL also only weighs 4.5Kg so is very light. Definatly worth a look, in my opinion. It also comes in at £1645 so is well below your budget!

HTH