Inspection of Fixed Bars and Truss

[top-cat]

Especially for things in the roof you would be well advised to get an insured structural engineer on your team to check structural safety of all parts and all the rigging. You NEED a professionally certified safe starting position at which to hand the installation over to the school authorities as their responsibility.

 

This is one of my gripes. Many structural engineers, when shown rigging equipment, will wash their hands of it. They're not interested, because it's not what they do. The assumption that because structural engineers are very qualified they will do what the less qualified lifting equipment engineers do, just better, is wrong. They're different trades with different specifics.

 

If you want your building looked at, and a rating on your beams given, call a structural engineer. If you need truss, tackle and rigging inspected, call a theatrical lifting equipment company to look at it. There are plenty enough in the UK to service our needs, and all the reputable ones are very good at it. You want somebody who does it every day delivering the verdict.

[paulears]

Also to say truss doesn't need inspection if you're not using it for lifting isn't necessarily true. It just doesn't apply to LOLER anymore. But depending on the manufacturers instructions, and you compliance with PUWER, it may still need periodic inspection.

 

 

Can you point me to where fixed lighting bars need any form of regimented inspection - because I don't know of anyone who does anything regularly for anything fixed. Surely permanent features are not 'work equipment'?

 

This surely must be rubbish?

[top-cat]

Can you point me to where fixed lighting bars need any form of regimented inspection - because I don't know of anyone who does anything regularly for anything fixed. Surely permanent features are not 'work equipment'?

 

This surely must be rubbish?

 

 

I did say 'dependent on the manufacturer's instructions'. And if your work involves pointing lights at people, then lighting bars probably do come under 'work equipment'.

 

Many truss manufacturers - if you read the paperwork that comes with it, rather than taking the approach of "I know how to use truss thank you very much" - stipulate that their truss must be inspected by a competent engineer every x-often. If the manufacturer says it needs to be inspected, you inspect it at that interval. A failure of the product, when you had failed to maintain the inspection regime that it's manufacturer had stipulated when you bought it, puts you firmly in the negligence bracket.

[Brian]

Surely permanent features are not 'work equipment'?

 

From the horses mouth (ie the HSE ACoP for PUWER)...

 

61 The following are not classified as work equipment:

(a) livestock;

(b) substances (for example, acids, alkalis, slurry, cement, water);

© structural items (for example, walls, stairs, roof, fences);

(d) private cars.

[paulears]

That will do me, Brian!

 

My reasoning was the fairly often discussion on hanging items from studs - and those calculations you did on how strong they are.

[kitlane]

So a ceiling would be a 'structural item' that needs no inspection.

 

Just like the one at the Apollo Theatre.

 

I'll get my coat ;)

[ImagineerTom]

Theatre Ceiling inspections are a term imposed by the local licensing authority in relation to being granted the premises license, they are a contract term not a statutory instrument as H&S LOLER / PUWER type regulations are.

[Brian]

For anyone missing Kit's smiley...

 

In general, there are two or three levels of 'law' in relation to equipment and work activities...

 

1) For some very specific activities and types of equipment there are specific Regulations relating to their design, use and maintenance. Off the top of my head things like Pressure Vessels.

 

...but if there isn't...

 

2) For some categories of work activities and categories of equipment there are generic Regulations relating to their design, use and maintenance. Things like PUWER (Provision of Work Equipment) and LOLER (Lifting Operations and Lifting Equipment).

 

...but if there isn't...

 

3) Covering ALL work activities is the Health and Safety at Work Act (HSWA).

 

 

If something does go wrong and you are taken to court then you will usually be charged under the HSWA by way of failing to comply with one of the Regulations in section 1) or 2) above.

[kerry davies]

And as if by magic HSE launch another consultation, this time on PUWER simplification.

 

Most has little direct affect on theatre or events but, saying that, I haven't picked it apart yet. HSE is busy as many of the simplifications relating to the Loftstedt review are coming to fruition. Some ACOPS will disappear altogether and many more will change. This consultation, like others, removes things like time periods set down in stone, possibly annual inspection where they are unnecessary.

[top-cat]

To clarify, I am not saying that PUWER details the inspection intervals for anything in particular. But what it does demand is that manufacturers instructions for the safe use of their product are followed. And often those instructions do include the inspection interval for the product, even if it's not being used in lifting.

[paulears]

I can't keep up with your ducking and diving. You say one thing, then you clarify it and shift opinion as deftly as a Scottish politician who wants to be on both sides of fence.

[top-cat]

Well then you best start reading what I actually write, as opposed to what gives you something to argue about, because that's what I've said all along. If I'm going to be a politician, you're being a tabloid who only reads what they want to read because it suits the argument that they feel they need to have.

 

Also to say truss doesn't need inspection if you're not using it for lifting isn't necessarily true. It just doesn't apply to LOLER anymore. But depending on the manufacturers instructions, and you compliance with PUWER, it may still need periodic inspection.

 

 

I did say 'dependent on the manufacturer's instructions'. And if your work involves pointing lights at people, then lighting bars probably do come under 'work equipment'.

 

Many truss manufacturers - if you read the paperwork that comes with it, rather than taking the approach of "I know how to use truss thank you very much" - stipulate that their truss must be inspected by a competent engineer every x-often. If the manufacturer says it needs to be inspected, you inspect it at that interval. A failure of the product, when you had failed to maintain the inspection regime that it's manufacturer had stipulated when you bought it, puts you firmly in the negligence bracket.

 

To clarify, I am not saying that PUWER details the inspection intervals for anything in particular. But what it does demand is that manufacturers instructions for the safe use of their product are followed. And often those instructions do include the inspection interval for the product, even if it's not being used in lifting.

 

If you can point out where I've ever suggested anything other than the it being in the manufacturer's instructions, I'm very keen to see. I can't find it myself.

[Blue Room Admin]

This topic has been split from another at the point where it drifted off.

 

It's also been temporarily closed to allow the dust to settle.