p.k.roberts Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 INDG247 – Electrical safety for entertainers (revised); http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg247.pdf and GS50 – Electrical safety at places of entertainment (third edition); http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/gs50.pdf interesting comments relating to three-phase supplies....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Lewis Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 If lighting is connected to two or three phases of the electrical supply, the dimmer cubicles on different phases should be clearly separated to avoid confusion. Only a single phase should be supplied to any one boom and the connections from the individual light fitting to the boom should be by plug and socket. It is preferable that different parts of the sound system should be powered from the same phase of the electricity supply. Great care is needed if the equipment is to be supplied from a three-phase supply or if adjacent items are fed from different phases. Many local authorities have their own rules on this topic. They should be consulted. I should like to see the HSE's explanation for these.... Most of the information in the booklet is sensible and helpful, but these quotes seem rooted in myths and regulations that changed decades ago... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I thought the 16th Edition got rid of the separation rule for power? I'll just have to make our dimmers single phase and take the 32/2 distros out of the amp racks before the summer kicks off. E2A:Plugs and sockets to BS EN 60309 (previously BS 4343) provide better protection against damp and rain, and are ideal for use at outdoor locations. Since they are a tougher design than the specialist 15 amp designs, they should be used for all new installations.45 For new installations or when replacing old equipment, it is recommended that plugs and sockets to BS EN 60309 are used. These have better cord grips, are often tougher, and cost less The HSE are saying we should be using connectors to BS EN 60309 for all new installations? I'm not a massive fan of 15a connectors but it seems odd that they're not recommending their use in new installs. Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.k.roberts Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 I'm glad it wasn't just me thinking that. I've also not come across the term 'dimmer cubicle' before; rack? room? any thoughts? E2A - just read the advice about PAT frequency; it suggests an initial frequency every five uses ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete McCrea Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 So bringing a tour in every 5 shows to appliance test everything.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalljoshua Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 Cubicle seems to sometimes refer to racks (the phase advice) but them seemingly refers to rooms in other sections? Josh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Perhaps we ought to help them out, they do say... For information about health and safety, or to report inconsistencies or inaccuracies in this guidance, visit www.hse.gov.uk/. It might be 'fun' to pull it apart and submit a line-by-line analysis as to why it is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 On a linked area the new Purple Guide is being launched today and will be available online via the EIF. From comments made at the February NOEA seminar this will not - in line with latest thinking - have ACOP status but each chapter will have an intro outlining the legal requirements addressed which come from HSE input. The other points emphasized at the Seminar are that there will be a move to discourage the use of hazard warning lights on moving vehicles on event sites, on the grounds that these cause confusion without adding much to safety; and that there will be a high profile lobbying campaign against the sale and use of Chinese Aerial Lanterns on obvious grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry davies Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Precisely so, Brian. I have yet to meet an HSE inspector who did not openly say that we are the experts and they need our co-operation in maintaining good safety practices. That is why ABTT, PSA and others have representation on JACE. Let them know, let your trade associations know and get it right. Pull it to shreds but also provide the accurate alternatives and you will be advancing your own causes. HSE actually want you to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior8 Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Let them know, let your trade associations know and get it right. Pull it to shreds but also provide the accurate alternatives and you will be advancing your own causes. HSE actually want you to do it. He's right - hence the journey of the new Purple Guide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulears Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 It strikes me that it shows a level of misunderstanding that is at least embarrassing! Perhaps we should ask the questions formally, rather than informally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Yes, I will be sending them a formal WTF!?It really scares me that the author has clearly never seen a professional dimming cabinet. The errors in this document are going to make my life hell. Now where did I put my 17th Ed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.k.roberts Posted May 7, 2014 Author Share Posted May 7, 2014 Yes, I will be sending them a formal WTF!? Hi Tomo, did you ever get round to sending this? and if so, was there any reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Sorry, I got about a quarter of the way through writing it when I realised it was making me far too angry to do my job properly. I believe the ABTT have, will ask if they got an answer. [edit] Managed to write it without getting too annoyed this time!Sent to their "Mythbusters" team, will see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomo Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well, I got an answer: We do not intend changing the guidance.Not even to fix the typographical errors which change the meaning of sentences. Can somebody else send them a letter as well? I don't know enough about modern sound systems to give specific examples. The bits about 3-phase apparently date from the original 1997 version, before BS7671 16th ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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