[Levelsound]

A conference event requires a 35m run from vision mixer to projector. On picture quality/cost/convenience grounds we decided to try Gefen extenders from component to CAT5e but now experience a delay of about 5 frames. Is this a problem I should have expected during the conversion over CAT5? Any suggestions to remedy this?
Many thanks, Levelsound

[Peter F]

I've just had a quick look at the extenders you are using and they look (apart from bit of cable eq) to be a passive unit. There's no electronic processing of any consequence inside them, basically some transformers. I would not expect the extenders to add any noticeable delay at all.

Most likely culprit is the projector.

Cheers,

Peter

[timsabre]

Peter F, on 22 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

Most likely culprit is the projector.

And the vision mixer, most vision mixers with built in synchronisers add 1 or 2 frames delay. Depends what setup you are comparing it with when you are noticing the extra delay.

This post has been edited by timsabre: 22 March 2012 - 01:40 PM

[Levelsound]

Thanks guys for that so far. Some more info that may be relevant. The Gefen extenders are the EXT-COMP-141N and are powered at the sender end only. The feed to that is from a Datavideo SE 500 mixer into a Sanyo XF46 projector (on hire). Still getting 5 frames delay. Take the extenders/Cat5 out and using 30m of composite on coax - no delay but poor picture.
Also feeding PowerPoint on VGA through TVone C2 1100 down converter and into SE 500 on s video but very disappointed with the resolution as compared to VGA straight into the projector. Do I have to live with that?
Thanks again for the advice.
Levelsound

[Brian]

Don't care what you say but there is no way you are getting a 5 frame delay down 35m of CAT5 even with those extenders. The fact that only the transmitter needs power means that they are to all intents and purposes an amplifier with balanced outputs feeding a passive balanced to unbalanced converter.

The delay is not coming from the CAT5 and TX/RX units.

In your experiment you swap from VGA down the CAT5 to composite down a bit of coax. This means, I assume, you are using different inputs on the projector and/or different outputs on your source. It's there that your problem lies.

[grizzly]

Brian, on 23 March 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

The fact that only the transmitter needs power means that they are to all intents and purposes an amplifier with balanced outputs feeding a passive balanced to unbalanced converter.

No, the Rx will not be passive, it will be active (as evidenced by the power LED on it).
It's just that the Tx will supply the power to it down the Cat5, along with the balanced component signal.

I quite agree though, component via them, down 35m of Cat5, should not be causing 5 frames of delay.

[badweasel]

Just to echo Brian and grizzly's replies, these cat5 extenders cannot be the source of any frame delay. The SE500 will introduce a delay of 1 frame and the Sanyo will add at least 1 more. Converting down from VGA to S-Video will also add delay, several frames if the converter is a slow (cheap) one.

Levelsound, on 23 March 2012 - 06:51 PM, said:

Also feeding PowerPoint on VGA through TVone C2 1100 down converter and into SE 500 on s video but very disappointed with the resolution as compared to VGA straight into the projector. Do I have to live with that?

Yes, yes you do.

[sleepytom]

30m isn't a long run for component video. Just run 3 BNCs.

It IS possible (though unlikely) that the component input on your projector has more delay than the composhit input.

But seriously PAL isn't suitable to a modern conference - hire a better switcher which can process RGBHV at 1024x768.

[Levelsound]

Many thanks everybody. I will try and test on another projector. I have also got my hands on 40m of BNC component cable and will run that if problem with the extenders persists.
Sleepytom you recommend a change to RGBHV for the future. Unfortunately I have just bought both the SE 500 and the TVone down converter C2 1100. To the future I suppose I could still run the cameras through the SE 500, into a new switcher that will also take VGA and on in RGBHV. The C2 1100 is looking a bit redundant. Am I on the right track?
Wish I had asked these questions here before making the commitment!
Much gratitude,
Levelsound

[sleepytom]

Yes - though you'll get an additional frame of delay (at least) by using 2 non-genlock switchers chained.

We should also ask about the cameras at this point. What are they? If they are modern "HD" cameras then you'll find the composite outputs have some delay from the downconversion in the camera.

It's kind of a horrible time to get into doing video, the industry is in the midst of going HD and investing in SD kit could be seen as a little short sighted. Having said that most presentations are still 4x3 most confrences are still running XGA and the projector manufactures seem to be slow on the uptake when it comes to HD resolutions at affordable prices (the dissapearence of Sanyo has left a real question-mark over the future of lower end professional projection, panasonic may or may not start to produce affordable mid brightness machines, but nobody seems to know quite what the future holds currently)