[haymere]

Hi There

Does anyone have EASE/EARS and possibly be able to help me with a project and get paid a fee.

Please contact me at markianpolden@hotmail.com

[Simon Lewis]

I suspect few will respond...

The full programme costs a significant sum, and isn't simple to use. Like many of such programmes, it provides excellent information for those who already understand electroacoustics in some depth. Usually, by the time you have knowledgeable people and an expensive programme, the daily fee is quite high.

What aspect do you need to model? Do you have a CAD plan of the space? If it is just the speakers themselves, then there are some lower cost / free alternatives. If it is the complex interaction of room and speakers, then for EASE a good model is needed, and that can take some time to draw?

Simon

[haymere]

Simon Lewis, on 18 February 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I suspect few will respond...

The full programme costs a significant sum, and isn't simple to use. Like many of such programmes, it provides excellent information for those who already understand electroacoustics in some depth. Usually, by the time you have knowledgeable people and an expensive programme, the daily fee is quite high.

What aspect do you need to model? Do you have a CAD plan of the space? If it is just the speakers themselves, then there are some lower cost / free alternatives. If it is the complex interaction of room and speakers, then for EASE a good model is needed, and that can take some time to draw?

Simon

Potted version of where I am at, Large church moved into a former cinema want a system installed, local contractor has put a quote and an EASE design in for a line array which will cover the area very well, I am a friend of the church leader ship and my uncle is one of the trustees. I have been asked for a comparative solution which I can provide through trade contacts and also another brand solution, but looking at the costings I know that I could specify a Good Brand Secondhand Point Source system which would do what they need for at least a £10k saving but I need to prove the coverage to them.

Mark

[Doug Siddons]

Just an idea but why not hire the secondhand rig and prove it?

[Stuart91]

There's also the possibility that firm who have quoted for the line array solution could also do you some second hand point source boxes as well. I'm sure they'd rather be asked the question than have their quote knocked back without a chance to compete.

One other thing worth mentioning - if you are going to do the install yourself, be very wary of the potential liabilities if you are flying the cabinets. Financial ruin and/or jail time is a real possibility if anything were to go seriously wrong. Which makes your £10k saving pale into insignificance.

[mervaka]

to a degree, you could do the maths on paper or on a spreadsheet. it just won't produce pretty 3d pictures, just numbers.

[haymere]

Sorry just to be clear, I am quoting as an installer, the other company is competing with me, and I am not the end user.

This is complicated by the fact that the church which is the client, is partially run by my family and friends and I as a christian have a moral obligation to save them as much money as possible although I am not a charity.

The other company is a secular company and want to make as much money as possible out of the situation as you would expect

The flying to be done would be done by a rigging company using the proprietary fittings and that would be that companies responsibility

[Simon Lewis]

I see where you are coming from... and yes - it would be good if you could save them money given your connections. However, from the church's point of view what will meet their immediate and longer term needs better? They may well save money with a second user system, but will have little or no manufacturer's warranty, and will be buying a system with (presumably) quite a few miles on the clock. If there are future breakdowns and problems it wont reflect so well on you. They will forget about the price tag (geddit!?) in a few year's time, but will be reminded of any system shortcomings everytime it is switched on. We cannot say whether a point source or line array approach would be more appropriate without a site vist or detailed plans, but you could get a feel for typical dispersion using the free online loudspeaker file viewer that EASE provide.

I think too that the "secular firm = driven only by money" and "christian firm morally obliged to save the church money" paradigm is perhaps a little cliched. I have carried out church installs for some 25 years, and although there are firms that fit your dscription, I have come across avaricious "christian" firms with questionable business practices and genuinely good value "secular" ones. Granted, the "christian" ones usually understand the needs of this market better but that doesn't always translate into better design, installation, tuning, training and support.


Now, having said all that, the church shouldn't just accept the first quote that gets given. So why not design a system that's comparable using new components that you have access to and provide your own quote. Your price should reflect the margins that you typically make and your normal cost of doing business. One could quite easily argue that a christian firm has a moral obligation to trade in a way that doesn't undermine other companies or take work away from them in an unfair manner?



Simon

[ramdram]

Not too sure about the socio economic "Faith v Mammon" angle on this one. Shirley you would do your sums and go for the long term economic benefits? Not entirely with you on a secular installer going for ripping off the lambs either as it were.

Notwithstanding the faith of any of the installers anyone who does a decent job will be wanting to build a long term relationship with any customer. Repeat business and future referrals and all that.

It might a shrewd notion to hire in stuff and listen to the result. Doug S made an excellent suggestion...supposing your "preferred installer" did the work and it sounded dreadful? Line arrays are quite "complex" to sort and might, possibly, be a tad OTT for your venue.

[Stuart91]

haymere, on 19 February 2012 - 10:44 AM, said:

This is complicated by the fact that the church which is the client, is partially run by my family and friends and I as a christian have a moral obligation to save them as much money as possible although I am not a charity.

The other thing to bear in mind is that your family and friends in the church will get pestered with every perceived problem with the system in future. It was for this reason that I declined to quote when my dad's church were looking for an installation. I'm pretty sure I'd have done a better overall job with greater value for money than what they ended up with, but he isn't getting endless grief about the system from busybodies who will never be content.

[david.elsbury]

+1 @Stuart91