[cable]

Hi Guys,

My school has there annual performing arts night approaching next week. This is of course run by the head of drama who is notorious for having no respect to the Sound and Lighting crew to the point of screaming at me for being late to a practise I was not informed about. Unfortunately we are needless to say frightened of her which makes it hard to share opinions with her.

She has made unrealistic demands which I do not feel are appropriate. She has asked for their to be lasers on the audience for up to 3 minutes at a time and has also said that she wants uninterrupted strobe for 58 seconds in one song. Do you think this is an acceptable request and if not how can I go about informing her that I'm not willing to adhere to her requests?

Cheers,
Cable

[themadhippy]

Get all the relavent rules and guidelines,print it all off,and leave it on her desk,maybe a copy also to the headmaster.the other solution is to surround her desk with a dozen atomics,gaffer her to the chair and fire the atomics for 58 seconds

[paulears]

When you are at work, you'l discover some bosses who scream and shout and ask for unreasonable things. You either put up with it, or get singled out for being 'difficult' - but you have the option to walk. At school it is you and your teacher. They are not always right, they do not always have more skills in certain areas than you, but just like work, they're your boss. Even worse - they often have a hand in your reports (which employers can see) and your end grades which stay with you for the rest of your life.

First up - why can you not have a strobe for 58 seconds? I assume you are thinking about photosensitive epilepsy. If you've studied it and conclude what you are being asked to do is unsafe, then simply print it out and give it to the teacher - and let THEM decide. You don't have any responsibility. You've done the 'human' thing and provided him or her with the data - you step backwards and then do as you are told.

Same thing with lasers. Give the teacher the data and your responsibility is over. You cannot get in trouble for doing what a teacher tells you - but you can make yourself VERY unpopular and the teacher could consider your behaviour unacceptable and you end up being worse off when they give your job to an idiot who does what the teacher says.


Again - why are you so worried about time? Lasers over the audiences head can be there for hours, can't they? Shining into people's eyes for a second could be considered bad.

Your attitude and way of writing in this indignant style suggests that you know best and the teacher is an idiot. When you've worked with Directors and big names who do the same thing you'll realise that many people are simply not interested in technical matters at all - and you have not yet learned the communication skills necessary to deal with them.

You have to remember your place - you're at school, teacher is higher in the pyramid than you are, and in the great scheme of things, it's a school event and they'd probably not notice if things go wrong. Your classmates will be not all be brilliant actors, singers and dancers.

You are on dangerous ground, because if you ask the head to vote in favour of a student over a teacher - you know who they will support.

Last thing - the screaming at the lighting and sound crew because they were late and didn't know. Maybe the teacher assumed you'd hear from the others that there was a time? Teachers will frequently assume everyone listens to everything. You were late. That's a fact. suck it up!

One of my people arrived an hour early because he'd not been there when we were all discussing the time in next day being put back. If he'd been an hour late I'd have moaned at him! I'd answer his complaint that nobody told him with an answer like "Din't you think to even check with anybody?" - no doubt it's my fault really, but when you're the boss, you're allowed to be unreasonable. He probably moaned and groaned about wasting an hour - perhaps really annoyed with me. One of those things.

It's school - have fun and learn things, but it's not real - it's education.

[ramdram]

Sounds to me Cable that you are bang on the learning curve, lol.

Once you have departed the calm waters of academe for the tempests of real life you will discover that life is full of unreasonable demands, get over it.

That is nothing at all to what IS going to happen to you.

Why not do the research, ref safety, on lasers and strobes then make a decent stab at a Risk Assessment...you will at least learn about the pros and cons of such things, not to mention their use in theatre...which is always useful...

Present this to your teacher and talk it through with her. Then she will have a better idea of what the "school" can or cannot do. You will be better informed than hitherto about how to handle stuff with adults.

Turn this into an opportunity to get something positive out of the situation.

[Dave SA]

If the ''teacher'' wants to scan a crowd with lasers for three minutes then I can imagine there is very little you could ever learn about how to do things correctly from said individual. If your ''teacher'' needs to have the relevant safety information presented to them by a student then in my limited opinion something is extremely wrong.

Perhaps you do just need to sit in a dark corner and wait until your schooling is over as is suggested above. If that's how everyone else entering our industry gets their qualifications it actually all starts to make a little sense to me!

[gyro_gearloose]

Quote

One of my people arrived an hour early because he'd not been there when we were all discussing the time in next day being put back. If he'd been an hour late I'd have moaned at him! I'd answer his complaint that nobody told him with an answer like "Din't you think to even check with anybody?"

One obvious question is if you knew he wasn't at the meeting where the time was changed, why did you not let him know about the time change? Should he really have to keep chasing around trying to find out if previously agreed times have actually changed? Criticising someone, or in the OPs teachers case screaming and shouting at someone for not knowing about something that you should have told them isn't really fair on them, is it?

[Wingwalker]

Paulears, as much as I admire a great deal of what you generally tend to write about, I have to say on this occasion I think you have come down a little too hard and feel it has to be said.

At lot of the "head of lighting in my school" types come onto the forum and get ideas above their stations which can sometimes lead to counter supportative measures from members of BR - usually with good cause as these kids can tend to beef themselves up into the big I am.

Although Cable could be running close into that terratory I feel he is also asking some quite sensible questions and doing what we always ask of the next generation and that is he is seeking advice from others who know more about this field than he does. Yes the big bad world is full of his teacher types and he will have to deal with them but all he is asking is how best to tackle a situation where he and others are afraid of confrontation with his superior. He's only 15 and probably just starting out with a little bit of bum fluff round his cheeks, in essence, he's just a child.

The big strobe and laser debate will always run and run but to be honest I'm afraid I can't see how he would make himself unpopular by being careful with such devices and pointing out his concerns - or am I in the minority here?

Normally I wouldn't say anything of this nature but felt otherwise this time.

Cable - I would agree with others here and to coin a phrase, do your homework. Gather together as much info as possible, copy everything down with points of reference and sources so that the info can be checked by a third party, then present your findings to your teacher in a calm and measured way. At the end of the day it will be the responsibility of the teacher and not you as to whether they go ahead with the original plan or not. The fact that you will have done the background work first will go in your favour. The wrong thing to do would be to go above their head - especially straight away as this will bite you on the arse in a very big way. As the old saying goes, keep calm and carry on, there are a lot of people who will want you to do things that they don't understand about. Keep your head down and study so that when another situation arises as it will you can then speak out safe in the knowledge you are talking fact, rather than fiction.

Hope that helps.

David.

[cable]

Thanks guys, I guess I'll try and write a risk assessment up, talk it over with her if necessary and then do what she asks - paulears is right, she is my boss.

Thanks Guys

[rossmck]

I can't really add anything on what's been said above - although I can sympathise with your situation (it's not that uncommon in schools that don't specialise in performance and arts for pupils who are more interested in the technical side of things to know more than the staff 'teaching' as they will be teaching something else, perhaps drama, but they're not teaching 'lighting design' or 'technical theatre'.

What I would say is congrats on actually thinking about these things - many pupils wouldn't (or they'd be the ones WANTING crowd scanning lasers ) - it shows an attitude of responsibility that I'm sure many blue-roomers wish more 'school heads of lighitng/tech/stage etc' would demonstrate.

Good luck with this show, and anything in the future. At times people further up the ladder (boss, teacher, supervisor, venue manager) will ask for things that you know are wrong but you'll end up doing anyway - if it puts someone at risk, feel free to walk away, the rest of the time you just have to get on with it unfortunately.

[Young Johnstone]

I'm not commenting on the lasers, but if you were to rig the strobes so they blast you in the face on full whack she may realise how uncomfortable they can become! Strobes are great in short duration but for nearly a minute even I'd be getting p###ed of!
Failing that rig them so they don't blast you in the face and look a little atmospheric! Take abit of edge off it. Maybe run them full intensity then slowly back them off!
I learnt when designing the audience will only notice the first 10 se nods of lighti.g before becoming absorbed in the action again!

For example, if in a theatre show your creating the impression of a very dark dingy cellar, I'll light the start very dark to give the impression then brighten it up slight over 30 seconds or more. The audience will not notice the subtle change and it means there not struggling and straining their eyes!
On festival's and gigs I generally put atomics on the floor behind the band to get some nice silhouettes, personally I don't like seeing the actuall fixture going for it!

I'm not commenting on the lasers, but if you were to rig the strobes so they blast you in the face on full whack she may realise how uncomfortable they can become! Strobes are great in short duration but for nearly a minute even I'd be getting p###ed of!
Failing that rig them so they don't blast you in the face and look a little atmospheric! Take abit of edge off it. Maybe run them full intensity then slowly back them off!
I learnt when designing the audience will only notice the first 10 se nods of lighti.g before becoming absorbed in the action again!

For example, if in a theatre show your creating the impression of a very dark dingy cellar, I'll light the start very dark to give the impression then brighten it up slight over 30 seconds or more. The audience will not notice the subtle change and it means there not struggling and straining their eyes!
On festival's and gigs I generally put atomics on the floor behind the band to get some nice silhouettes, personally I don't like seeing the actuall fixture going for it!

[photographic08]

If this in a school theatre or actual theatre then presumably there's a house tech, who's job, certainly in a school, is to make sure the show is safe. In a proper theatre they'll say if they think something is unsafe aswell. If you think part of this show is going to be unsafe then they're probably one of the best people to talk to.

[rossmck]

A lot of schools no longer have any in house tech. I've worked in that role in some as an outside contractor just brought in for the show (!) - sign of the times I guess but whilst I probably shouldn't be complaining I do find it slightly depressing that schools can't do these things themselves as a result many end up with facilities never used to their full potential because there's noone in permanent staff that deals with them

[mark_s]

paulears, on 08 August 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

Same thing with lasers. Give the teacher the data and your responsibility is over. You cannot get in trouble for doing what a teacher tells you - but you can make yourself VERY unpopular and the teacher could consider your behaviour unacceptable and you end up being worse off when they give your job to an idiot who does what the teacher says.

I'm playing devil's advocate to an extent here, but if what the OP has said is factually correct (that the teacher is demanding crowd scanning) would you not say that he has a moral obligation not to allow her to do something stupid and dangerous, given that it's not (just) her eyesight that is on the line? I know that it's easier said than done, but I would not be comfortable with sitting back and letting someone else do something irresponsible and dangerous - not now, and not when I was that age, boss or not, teacher or not.

To the OP - look at this as great practice for a future career as a lighting designer! You'll find in the professional world that most director's don't have the first clue about the technical intricacies of what they're asking for, and one of the fundamental skills of working as a lighting designer is managing people's expectations - gently telling them that such and such can't be achieved safely or for the budget that is set, and not leading the creative team to expect things which can't happen. Great upsets happen when there's a breakdown in communication between the expectations of the creatives and the ideas of the designer, and being able to gently (but firmly) persuade, explain and argue your corner is an essential skill.

Edit to add
Also consider bring options to the table yourself. 'I'm sorry, we can't do this however I think that doing this instead would be particularly effective' is a much better approach than 'sorry, no can do'. Work with her overall vision, get onboard with it, and then work out how it can actually be achieved.

This post has been edited by mark_s: 09 August 2012 - 12:31 AM

[paulears]

If the teachers is waaaaay out of her depth and already screaming at people, then it's very doubtful she'll be receptive to input from students she's already realised have skills and knowledge she lacks. Almost certainly she will have run the issues mentioned past the school's 'specialist' - perhaps the physics teacher, who has assured her the devices are low powered - and has used their own knowledge of physics experiments and the rules attached, to reassure her it's not a problem. The fact that uncontrolled use could be dangerous means that any attempt to tell her it's not ok could put her in the position of having an 'expert' say ok, and a student say it's not. Cue another row.

Same thing with the strobe issue - maybe the biology teacher sorted this one.

I do understand what people are saying, and I feel for the OP - but the concept of school being like work, where it's encouraged for employees to take a proactive safety is not quite how real life is.

Advice from outside in many schools is not appreciated. I've seen dreadful practice, and had a teacher sneer at me (not knowing my background) when playing for one of their shows, for mentioning glaring problems, and sadly, I've learned my lesson. I don't interfere where my input is not wanted. The only time I now open my mouth is where there's an immediate danger. When they're abusing the strobes, lasers and smoke, I close me eyes, or look the other way.

[Wingwalker]

To the OP - this is turning out to be quite an interesting thread so please keep us all updated as time progresses, I for one will be really interested to hear what the outcome is.

David.