[dedward]

Hi,

How useful would you find a working model theatre at 1:25 scale with a set of controllable lights, and scale fly bars be??? Are there any features that should/shouldn't be included..... I am considering going forward with plans to produce one, which would be a miniature of a full size theatre and would like some advice on which direction to go with the project for it to be as useful as possible!

Thank you so much!

Dedward

[gareth]

25 years ago, I suspect the answer to this question would've been very different ...

The thing is, in this day and age of very capable visualisation and rendering software, I have a feeling that a physical model theatre might be of somewhat limited use. Before WYG, ESP Vision, Spotlight and all those other packages, there was a definite market for that sort of thing (vis. Patrick Woodroffe's 4:1 studio). Nowadays, though ... well, I have a feeling that most people would prefer to do it on a computer screen.

[w/robe]

What are you thinking it would be useful for?

1:25 models of specific theatres are used for set design and I have seen 1:10-ish used for teaching lighting but I would think a generic theatre with flying etc. is more of a model making hobby project than a useful theatre tool.

[dedward]

Hi Again,

I was thinking that it would be good to house a set design for a certain production in the lobby, and for explaining to the cast and crew in a miniature environment of a specific theatre...

I totally agree about the Computer software, something still tells me that people like to actually be able to touch something....

Thanks,

Dedward

[w/robe]

dedward, on 15 Jun 2008, 8:47 PM, said:

I was thinking that it would be good to house a set design for a certain production in the lobby, and for explaining to the cast and crew in a miniature environment of a specific theatre...

They are used for this but they do not have to be 'working' just make it out of foam board and fly by having drops on bits of thick wire that rest on the side walls.

I don't like seeing set models, costume designs and even at times show photos in the foyer but this is a personal preferance for letting the audience wait.

[cedd]

I believe one of the guys currently doing lighting courses in secondary schools has a miniature theatre. It wasn't true to scale, but had all you could need to do some decent lighting tuition - gauze, a set to light and characters as well. I believe there was also a simple flying system.

Could have been from either Kave or Northern Stage, but equally could have been completely unrelated, they just come to mind.

[Tilt]

Steve Kemp theatre

This is a working scale 1:4 theatre. It was started by Steve Kemp, a british lightiing designer living and working in holland.
It is started about 20 years ago but is still in use.

Allard

[dedward]

Thanks for all your comments, they are all very incitelful and I agree with the fact about seeing the magic before you are allowed to experience it in the theatre.... I will take all this into account, it's probably more of a toy!!!

Dedward

[paulears]

Hang on! For set design, it's still model boxes that work best to explain sets to non-plan reading or low-tec people. In fact, last year at ABTT one of the well known stage schools had loads of photos of their model boxes. Most6 of these are with the intention of showing the design, not the lighting, but they're great for playing with set and lighting colours, and they feature in many educational performing/production arts programmes you can do at school, college and university.

Computer visualisations work brilliantly for wiggly lights, but don't really show you the 'quality' of the light (yet).

I also reckon the skills in designing and building at a scale are damn useful for all sorts of things.

[CJB 2008]

cedd, on 15 Jun 2008, 9:57 PM, said:

I believe one of the guys currently doing lighting courses in secondary schools has a miniature theatre. It wasn't true to scale, but had all you could need to do some decent lighting tuition - gauze, a set to light and characters as well. I believe there was also a simple flying system.

Could have been from either Kave or Northern Stage, but equally could have been completely unrelated, they just come to mind.

Yeah, I'm not sure of the guy's name/company name, however he came into our school a couple of months ago to do a lighting course for us. As you correctly said, he had a simple flying system etc. included in his model theatre, but he also used some computer software to enhance the tuition, and used it alongside the model. Basically, he taught most of the theory using the software, and then allowed us to practice what we had learnt on the model. In my opinion it was very useful.

[Ken Coker]

For what it's worth:

1. I work with a lot of 1:25 models at the design stage. They are almost useless as a way of showing actual "production" moments - birdies, mag-lites, anglepoises all just have too different photometric parameters to be of use. However, they are very useful in demonstrating bigger ideas, general looks, possible angles.

2. Having said that, at a larger scale, a "light lab" is a very useful resource for teaching and learning of both design and board operation. Should I ever return to an institution of HE, I would certainly press for the establishment of one.


KC

[w/robe]

dedward, on 17 Jun 2008, 8:58 PM, said:

I will take all this into account, it's probably more of a toy!!!
Dedward

paulears, on 17 Jun 2008, 9:15 PM, said:

Hang on! For set design, it's still model boxes that work best to explain sets ...........they're great for playing with set and lighting colours,

I'm going to try and agree with both of you.

Dedward's idea may be more like a puppet theatre than a model box at it sounds as if it would try to replicate reality at 1:25 and as such is probably a toy.

As Paul says a model box is hugely important but it does not seek to reproduce the mechanics of the process, there are no ropes and pulleys for flying, revolves/trucks are not on wheels etc. A good model is vital to a production as it shows everyone the feel of the set while tec drawings and ground plans show the practicalities.

[dedward]

All these comments have been really interesting to me and I'm sure many other people reading them - I would use it principally for working out practicalities of certain sets in the space we can provide at the full size venue - I seem to be getting the general jist that the mechanics of a full size theatre are not necessary/included in scale version.....?

Thanks again!

Dedward

[Ken Coker]

Dear Dedward

Don't find this patronising, but you are aware that a 1:25 model of the proposed setting is a very much part of the design process? The designer does indeed see if the set will work in the space - amongst other things - and the set model will be used by the builders and painters to create the desired design. Scale drawings of the set will also be made. As mentioned, the set model might also be used by the lighting designer.

Many theatres have a "modelbox" of the space that designers will use.

The current SBTD exhibition at the V&A has a large number of set models as well as artefacts from and pictures of the realised designs.

Hope that helps

KC

[Piers Shepperd]

Productions today are modelled extensively in CAD 3d (the only way that we can be assured that it will all fit together) but this CAD data is now used by many different production stakeholders (lighting, sound, projection etc) but less technical disciplines (choreography, director etc) still rely heavily on a scale model to plan blocking etc.
The quality of 3d renderings etc can of course be photo realistic with enough effort, but a real scale model is always highly recommended.
Taking CAD data and making a model is also very easy as you don't have to do any measuring, just make sure you print out everything at the right scale!
I have been amazed at the number of times a difficult technical issue has only been realised or resolved by seeing it on a real scale model. Peoples eyes when faced with a package of 250 detailed 3d CAD drawings tend to glaze over until they see the real model.

This post has been edited by Piers Shepperd: 18 June 2008 - 06:14 PM