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Zarges Saftey / General Safety


BenEdwards

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Hi, we are a volunteer run venue and have a number of health and safety documents and I am keen to update the one for lighting. We are a 107 seater venue with a stage Stage 4.6m x 7 and lighting bars are around 3.5m above stage. Be good if someone could point me to a good template to use.

 

I have some specific questions about Zarges combination ladders (http://www.zarges.com/uk/access/ladders/combination-ladders/starline-s-combination-ladder-3-part/).

 

Firstly the question is about 3 point of contact and when you need two hands. Is the two feet and the knee (i.e. you are leaning into the ladder) counted as three?

 

The second question is about footing the ladder. I know you should always have someone close by but I have hear it said on this forum that it is not necessary and can actually be a bad idea (i.e. you could simply end up wit the ladder hurting the person footing it as well as you). From my POV it does make the leader feel more stable. I am getting fairy confident at the top of it. I think we have to so a step or two above the apex to work comfortably on one of the bars and this does make we feel a little nervous when I first go up.

 

This brings me to the other question, is it considered safe to go above the apex. I found this http://www.midlandladders.com/images/catalog/category36.jpg picture of someone working on them and was wondering if this was ill-advised?

 

Ben

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Hi Ben,

 

You should always have someone footing your ladder, as a standard, it not only puts weight on the bottom for when the ladder user is going over the apex, but makes people on the ground (if working in a busy area) aware that the ladder is in use, and said person cal also be on the look out for any hazards, such as a stray flight case, or just simply someone on their phone walking into the ladder, especially in busy live event situations.

 

Leaning into the ladder is classified as a third point of contact, I believe that the ladder association could confirm this.

 

Its important to note that ladders are for temporary/short duration work (no more than 30mins), and where the use of any other means of access (either powered or not such as towers etc) is not justified or practical to do so, so ladders are more of a last resort option in the eyes of regulations.

 

Edit: There are some videos on the following link that you may find useful

 

https://ladderassociation.org.uk/guidance/laddersolve/watch-the-videos/

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Hi Ben,

 

You should always have someone footing your ladder, as a standard,...snip

 

 

Rubbish. Whilst the reasons given in the post are a good reason to foot a ladder, there are many situations where footing a ladder is completely unnecessary, and may in fact introduce a risk that wasn't there in the first place (additional person in the danger area). Going up a 10-rung, or even 12-rung to the apex to focus a parcan, in a controlled situation, I'm completely happy with. Going halfway up the same ladder to man-handle a moving light onto a pros boom, or other such awkward activity, then you bet I'll ask for someone on the bottom.

 

Further reading here

 

 

Ian

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I also don't like the blind 'foot a ladder' principle. The idea of footing is to stop the bottom sliding out. In a Zarges style ladder in the A frame configuration, this can;t happen because of the stays. Personally. I like having somebody at the side - because if these things were to fall, they would topple sideways, not fore or aft. I'd much prefer working off a Zarfes to any form of free standing ladder.

 

There are loads of ladder safety rules, advice, guidelines and rumour. HSE simply suggest you should consider if there is a better method, and if there is, use it. Very few people will be up one long enough to consider timing it - most use means going up and down is normal. For me - three point is my two feet and convenient stomach, and possibly my thighs. The biggest hazard is also perhaps my stomach, because it increase my total weight, and while it's difficult to make my CoG fall outside the footprint of the ground points, my 16 stone means that working near the top makes the thing flex, and I don't like the feeling of that.

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Personally. I like having somebody at the side - because if these things were to fall, they would topple sideways, not fore or aft.

 

Don't quote me on it, as I'm not reading the thing again, but I'm sure the HSE/Loughborough Uni document comments on that! :P

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Footing a ladder is specifically for a straight ladder where there is a significant risk of the bottom of the ladder sliding away from the wall that the top of the ladder rests on. With an A-frame ladder assuming that the tie bar is sound, there is no chance of needing someone to "foot the ladder".
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A lot is about personal confidence. I'll happily go to the top of the extension of our fourteens in free space, some of our guys won't go near the apex of a set of tens!

 

Paul, I'm with you on the "stomach hold" manoeuvre. I'm around four stone heavier than you, so I can get a better grab with mine!

 

I see little point in having somebody foot the ladders for me in most situations, they're stable as they are, I don't like a fidget making things wobble for me, and seriously, what's anybody going to do if I get myself off balance that far up?

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Footing a A-frame ladder is close to pointless.

 

Ah, now we've swung too far the other way! If you're at the top of a 6m Zarges trying to get a moving light on a studio theatre grid, or you're focussing the theoretical Parcan with ASM's dashing about trying to set things, or a hundred other different situations, you should really consider a 'footer' for the reasons in Adam L-F's post.

 

The answer comes down to a dynamic risk assessment, or, as it used to be called, common sense. "Is there a possibility someone could walk into my ladder, giving it a good old shake and possibly knocking me off, or am I doing a rather vigourous job at the top of it? Hmm..I'd consider asking someone to foot it. Is it just me, and an assistant in the venue, and am I doing a fairly straightforward and gentle task? I'll most likely be alright then!"

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Footing a Zarges A-frame is almost pointless except if it;

A) Gives the guy up top the confidence to work securely

B) Prevents lone working, and

C) The guy footing the ladder is good at making tea.

As Ian writes, RAs need to be "dynamic" and fluid and not something set in stone and immutable. That brings us round to Ben's first question on templates. I hates them.

 

The HSE site with "examples" is fine but using what anyone else uses is chocolate teapot territory. The venue, staff, training, skill levels, ages, physical fitness, state of equipment and much more make each RA unique. The dynamic nature of them, where the RA changes as the job and circumstances change, suggests they need to be as simple and brief as can be handled by those affected by them. An encyclopaedic RA sitting in a desk drawer is useless and one which nobody reads because of sheer size is worse than useless.

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I will normally work on A-frame Zarges without anyone footing it. Main exception is when it's raked. If someone takes it upon themselves to foot my ladder they are putting themselves at risk. If not from things falling, from me stepping on their hands or kicking their head as I come down.

 

When leaning a ladder off, the bottom should be secure. This could be someone footing, but it's safer for it to be tied off, as the person going up the ladder is the person responsible for how secure it is, and is not relying on a footer who may get distracted or called away etc. It also does not require someone being in a position of risk of injury from falling items.

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Our training has two relevant points here - and our training was extensive...

 

Three points - two legs and chest/stomach. If you're leaning in, you're okay in our book.

 

The "top three rungs" should apply to any ladder - you shouldn't be standing above the 3 rungs on any ladder, I believe.

 

We don't foot a Zarges except in extreme cases - good weights or a lot of movement right at the top. If you climb to the top fully extended and look down , you're still within the base of the ladder, so I don't see it toppling that way - this can be demonstrated by how much you can't reach a flat wall facing it in A-frame configuration - you're a good distance away.

 

That said, you don't usually foot a normal small 6/8 rung stepladder, but I would ask someone to steady a stepladder if you were handing any traverse loads or doing anything that would be helped by the extra stability.

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