[KindredHyperion]

I seem to have been posting rather too many new topics recently, but here goes:

I am trying to choose between the Z88 FatFrog and the Jands Event 408 for a new install in a school. So far they weigh up like this:

Jands 408:
Good:

• Got some good recommendations from others
  
• Had a demo, was very easy to use
  
• Simple moving light functions, again easy to use
  
• AC, the company we're getting it from are the UK service agent for Jands products

Bad:

• No internal storage or USB capability - shows have to be stored on a floppy.
  
• No subs - playback faders only
  
• No cuelist feature as far as I know - only cue stacks on the playbacks (more like manually stepping through chases than anything else IIRC)
  
• I'm not sure I like controlling pan and tilt with two wheels
  
• No offline editor

FatFrog
Good:

• Proper "go" cues
  
• Submasters
  
• USB storage
  
• Cheaper, I think
  
• F.R.O.G. feature (Fixture random output generator)
  
• Nicer pan/tilt control - wheels arranged nicely (I can't really explain it, look here and here to see what I mean)
  
• Offline editor
  
• A nicer game, in my opinion
  
• Console lock could come in handy, considering it will be out FOH during rehersals with kids.

Bad:

• Slightly more complicated than the 408
  
• Errmmm...

I think I've just answered my own question, but oh well

I may have missed out some major points here, not having experience with either desk, so any input would be great.

It will be used for everything, from theatre to classical music to rock music, to award ceremonies, etc. I definitely need to be able to busk though. Will be used with a rig of 9 heads and 24 channels of generics.

Any input appreciated,



Adam

[MrQiu]

Hi Adam .
I think we/you should go for the Strand 408.. We had the demo and it will be quicker for us to get it installed.
On the other side, the Frog does have frogger, compared to the Strand's mere tetris..

My two yuen.

[sam.henderson]

Quote

Strand 408

What?? Never heard of this one, do you mean 300 24/48 or 520i?? Maybe its just me being thick but I don't think there is a 400 series unless its really new!

Ohh and the normal Frog doesn't have USB, the Frog II does though.

Sam

[paulears]

I suspect the posters got a tad confused and said Strand rather than Jand - easy mistake.

I must admit choosing a desk because of a game built in for when you are bored is a novel method of assessing which one is better.

[SceneMaster]

Firstly I think MrQiu meant Jands Event 408. Secondly the Fat Frog is very easy to use. The only down side to it is it has less mover control than the Event but then you have to ask yourself are you as a school ever going to have more than 12 movers/scrollers (and if you do have a lot of scrollers you can run them of a generic channel anyway if you wanted to free up the mover controls)? I would personally go for the Fat Frog for a school situation they are fairly common place in these sorts of situations with fairly in experienced operators.

Well this is only my view…

Edit: paulears beat me... and yes choosing a desk due to its game seems a great idea I must remind myself to spec my next desk on the basis of the built in game.

This post has been edited by SceneMaster: 15 July 2005 - 09:26 PM

[sam.henderson]

Quote

suspect the posters got a tad confused and said Strand rather than Jand - easy mistake.

Sorry, missed the mistake between Jands and Strand- indeed and easy mistake as they sound a little similar!

Quote

I must admit choosing a desk because of a game built in for when you are bored is a novel method of assessing which one is better.

True, and in a school environment I would see having a game that you can't lock as a disadvantage!!

Sam

[KindredHyperion]

Joe (aka MrQiu) you fool!

Anyway, I just realised I forgot that this would be used with 12 scrollers. Do scrollers count as a moving fixture on the FatFrog?

[sam.henderson]

Really yes, you want to store scrollers as 'fixtures' on the fixture selection buttons. This makes life a lot easier due to LTP and HTP etc. etc. However you could save them to normal channel faders, I would just make programming a little more fiddly and difficult. For your situation a leap frog may be more suitable.

Sam

[MrQiu]

Doh....
*Goes back to sound forum*
Leap frog we're getting then?

Also, Adam I don't beleive flaming is tolerated on this forum..

[Graham NZ]

Hi

We do have scroller profiles that make it possible to run more than one scroller on a fixture button. Basically you have say six scrollers on a button, when you select that button and then colour you will have scroller one as colour one, scroller 2 as colour 2 etc. You have to patch the scrollers DMX as a sequence.

Hope that helps

Graham
Z88

[sam.henderson]

Just for information:

Frog: 24/48 HTP Channels with faders and NO fixtures
Fat Frog: 24/48 HTP Channels with faders and 12 Fixtures I.e. MLs, Scrollers, Scans etc. (with selection buttons)
Leap Frog: 48 HTP Channels with faders and 24 Fixtures I.e. MLs, Scrollers, Scans etc (with selection buttons)
Bull Frog: 96 HTP Channels with Faders amd 24 Fixtures I.e. MLs, Scrollers, Scans etc. (with selection buttons)

For more info go to The Zero88 Website

Sam

[gnomatron]

I'm pretty sure the 408 has submasters, too. I think the playbacks can be used as subs, and half the bottom row of preset faders, too, if you're in wide mode.

p&t is fine, in my experience, and mover/scroller control is really nice generally, with all those pallettes.

I've never used a frog, and I really like the 408, but you should get a frog in and demo it.

[KindredHyperion]

gnomatron, on 16 Jul 2005, 1:20 PM, said:

I've never used a frog, and I really like the 408, but you should get a frog in and demo it.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've had a play with the Frog OLE, and I'll be hiring a Frog this week for a concert, so I'll know more then.

Can I just confirm, is it definite that the 408 does not do "go" cues?

[Brian]

KindredHyperion, on 16 Jul 2005, 1:25 PM, said:

gnomatron, on 16 Jul 2005, 1:20 PM, said:

I've never used a frog, and I really like the 408, but you should get a frog in and demo it.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've had a play with the Frog OLE, and I'll be hiring a Frog this week for a concert, so I'll know more then.

Can I just confirm, is it definite that the 408 does not do "go" cues?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No, you can have as stacks as there are submasters. Each submaster fader can have a stack assigned to it.

[KindredHyperion]

gnomatron said:

I'm pretty sure the 408 has submasters, too. I think the playbacks can be used as subs, and half the bottom row of preset faders, too, if you're in wide mode.

In the demo I had though (albeit quite some time ago now) I seem to remember the technician (Andy Mahaffey, merlin24 if you're there) telling me that they were not submasters. I also don't remember seeing anything like fade times between cues, and there was definitely no big "go" button like on the LeapFrog.

I'm leaning towards the LeapFrog now because I like the cue stack more, and also because it has the all important offline editor, which the 408 doesn't. Oh and the game is better